Yuki Terumi vs Michael Roa Valdamjong (Blazblue vs Tsukihime)




Yuki Terumi, the Black Susano’o from Blazblue!

Michael Roa Valdamjong, Tsukihime’s Serpent of Akasha!

Ouroboros, the depiction of a serpent devouring its own tail. As a symbol this represents the eternal cycle of death and rebirth, or creation and destruction. And it’s an appropriate pick for these two serpent themed villains. Unable to die and constantly reviving, these two sadistic bastards have endured by living on through proxies and hosts, manipulating events from the shadows to achieve their depraved goals. But when they cross paths, which one will have their cycle broken? Let’s find out as we decide who will win a DEATH BATTLE!


Before we begin

For this blog, we’ll be analyzing the main canon for both Blazblue and the original Tsukihime continuity (i.e the games, manga, and visual novels), as well as the non canon anime Blazblue: Alter Memory. Stuff from the Tsukihime remake continuity will not be included.

Background

Terumi




“This whole world is nothing but lies! LIES! Let me show you what I like to call the truth! The truth called DESPAIR!”

Long ago, before the universe as we know it existed, there was an otherworldly dimension known as the Boundary. In this dark empty space lay the godlike Master Unit: Amaterasu and her brother, the god of destruction Susano’o. These siblings lived in a constant cycle of creation and destruction, but as time went on Susano’o would somehow gain a soul and a sense of self awareness. Growing to hate his sister, Susano’o’s soul eventually abandoned its body and entered the world she had created, taking on a new identity as the enigmatic Yuki Terumi.

Using his former body and knowledge of the Boundary as incentive, Terumi convinced the scientists Relius Clover and Shuichiro Ayatsuki to create a vessel for him, and in exchange he would help them create Kusanagi, a cyborg that could explore the Boundary and had the power to kill Amaterasu. Unfortunately Kusanagi’s creation was a failure, and a giant monster known as the Black Beast emerged from the Cauldron they’d been using. With his current body destroyed, his soul heavily damaged, Relius dragged into the Boundary, and Shuichiro having disappeared, Terumi was forced to reside in the Boundary. After five years of healing his spirit, he reemerged and tracked down his vessel, now an amnesiac high schooler named Kazuma Kval.

By slowly manipulating Kazuma and planting seeds of doubt into his mind, Terumi convinced Kazuma to merge with him willingly, but his success was short-lived, as he was soon captured and sealed away by the vampire Clavis Alucard. He would only be freed when Shuichiro’s daughter Nine undid his seals and placed him under the hold of the Mind Eater spell. Now bound by the witch’s side, Terumi was forced to join her and five other warriors in a crusade against the Black Beast.

As part of the Six Heroes, Terumi’s knowledge proved instrumental in stopping the Black Beast, with his research leading to Nine’s creations like Armagus and the Nox Nyctores. With these weapons, humanity struck down the Black Beast after a ten year war, but the victory didn’t last long.

In the whole time he had spent with Nine, Terumi had been working to free himself from Mind Eater by habitually separating his consciousness from Kazuma’s. The vessel used his past friendship with the alchemist Trinity Glassfille to manipulate her into freeing them from Mind Eater, and after some years of work, he was finally released. Terumi celebrated this newfound freedom by sadistically beating Nine to death and seemingly killing Trinity, then went on to ambush his former “partners” Jubei and Hakumen. But even with his power amplified by a nearby Cauldron, victory was ripped from his grasp when Hakumen sacrificed his freedom to drag Terumi and himself inside the Boundary.

This would have been the end of Terumi had it not been for the intervention of the godlike supercomputer Takamagahara. Seeing him as a vital instrument in their plan to overthrow Amaterasu, the AIs freed Terumi, who contacted the recently released Relius to make him another body. Now in the vessel of Hazama, Terumi went on to burn down a church, killed its nun, amputated one of her adoptive children (Ragna), and kidnapped the other two for his own purposes. As the boy (Jin) was adopted into the influential Kisaragi family, the girl (Saya) became the victim of brutal experiments and served as the basis for a series of clones to create another Kusanagi.

From there, Terumi remained in the background as he worked to end the time loop Amaterasu had created. After 729 attempts the loop was broken, and in the aftermath Terumi tricked Noel (one of Saya’s clones) into tethering him to the physical world. Terumi would then go on to scheme against Takamagahara and successfully disable them, while at the same time transforming Noel into a Kusanagi called Mu-12 and reviving Hades Izanami, the goddess of death.

As Relius and Izanami did their part in summoning Amaterasu to kill her, Terumi was tasked with securing the Ikaruga region to bring about the apocalyptic event of Doomsday. However, their plan would be foiled in part by the other Six Heroes, with Trinity separating Terumi from Hazama and Hakumen striking him down… or so it seemed.

Thanks to the power of self-Observation, Terumi survived, allowing him and the rest of the cast to be dragged into the Embryo, a pocket dimension created by Izanami. While there, he learned from Relius that he only had a week to live without a vessel, and feeling he had outgrown Hazama, Terumi began to look elsewhere. After ransacking Clavis’ coffin, he uncovered the legendary soul cutting blade Hihiirokane, using it to permanently sever his bond with Hazama and shatter Hakumen’s soul. With the silver knight’s body now empty, Terumi reclaimed the dormant Susano’o Unit, resurrecting as the god of destruction once more.

Using his godlike power, Susano’o demolished the heroes, kidnapped Noel, dragged himself out of the Embryo, and located the gate containing the Azure Flame Grimoire, the source of ultimate power. But he was still pursued by Ragna and Jin, who- with Trinity’s aid- forced Terumi out of the Susano’o Unit. This defeat signaled the opening of the gate, with Ragna and Terumi being dragged inside.

In a final battle to decide the fate of the world, Ragna and Terumi dueled one last time, ending with Ragna impaling Terumi through the chest. But even as his nemesis devoured his soul, Terumi took his loss in stride, laughing like a complete madman in his final moments.



Roa




“Has my goal changed? No it hasn’t. My goal has and always will be eternity. So you’ve come… eternity. Welcome to my castle, Arcueid Brunestud.”

800 years ago, Michael Roa Valdamjong was an incredibly powerful magi who served under the Catholic Church as a church executor slaying vampires and any unholy heretic in his way. This was until an influx of Dead Apostles and Fallen True Ancestors started running rampant around the place far too powerful for any single assassin to take on alone, and so a group of higher ranked executors was personally co-founded by him and his companion Narbareck to combat them.

During his time leading the Burial Agency, Roa spent a great amount of time studying about vampires, particularly their progenitors the True Ancestors. To confirm his thesis on what he deemed as true immortality. In summary, Roa viewed human mortality as a hurdle in his studies and saw the immortality of the Dead Apostles as imperfect as it required other living beings to sustain their existence and they only aged slower. So he dreamed of something more, eternity if you will. Despite this though, to overcome the limits of old age as a human and continue his research he willingly became a Dead Apostle to prolong his research. He soon left the Burial Agency to Narbareck and tricked the True Ancestor Arcueid to drink his own Blood, absorbing part of her power and becoming an incredibly powerful vampire as a result.

Thanks to having part of the True Ancestor’s power Roa became unstoppable, he established his influence and amassed an army of Dead Apostles who had been sealed by the Church. One of the True Ancestors, Altrouge Brunestud attempted to put him in place but she and the rest of the ancestors were very quickly defeated.

Despite all his incredible power though. Years later he faced the combined forces of the Church and the True Ancestor Arcueid, and was soon eventually killed by them. But it wasn't quite over yet for Roa, as a result of his years of study he managed to reach the ideal eternity he was looking for. And would soon reincarnate for centuries in various hosts by converting his soul into information, converting every city or town he found into his lair of undead and be defeated by Arcueid every time. This cycle would be repeated for a total of 17 times throughout various centuries. Earning him the name of the Infinite Reincarnator.

This was until he would reincarnate in the Tohno family as SHIKI Tohno, belonging to a rich family of Mixed-Bloods hiding as humans. The course of what soon follows depends on the route. In the near side of the moon routes, SHIKI was fully taken over by Roa and caused serial killings all around Misaki City unleashing the undead. Whereas in the far side routes, SHIKI still persisted despite that and fought his siblings Shiki Tohno and Akiha Tohno in the Tohno mansion. No matter the route, though, Roa was killed by his foster brother Tohno and his cycle of reincarnation was ended forever.


Experience, Intelligence, and Skill

Terumi

Terumi is an expert at manipulating others and enabling conflicts to suit his needs. He founded the tyrannical world power of the Novus Orbis Librarium and its rival Sector Seven, and his cunning allowed him to kickstart both the events of the Dark War and the Ikaruga Civil War.

Terumi is noted to be a master of close quarters and sorcery, and his knowledge of seithr and the Black Beast proved invaluable in the creation of Armagus, one of the few things that could harm it. His intellect allowed him to create Ragna’s Azure Grimoire, observe every possibility of the Continuum Shift involving him and Ragna (23:24-23:44), and eventually observed all of its possibilities. Even in scenarios of the Continuum Shift where he lost, he was still able to use it to his advantage, like infiltrating Takamagahara or devising methods to counter the Power of Order (2:15-2:31), a force that exists to keep balance in the world.

While his lanky frame might lead you to believe he’s not much of a fighter, Terumi is more than capable of competing with skilled warriors like Ragna and Tsubaki, as well as seasoned war veterans such as Hakumen, Jubei, and Jin. He even defeated an exact clone of himself in a fight that was so close it nearly killed him. And upon reaching the peak of his power as Susano’o, he completely demolished the heroes with little effort.

Roa

Roa’s knowledge on Magecraft is considered enough to make him Grand level, the highest rank in the Association. He even taught Nero Chaos the Soil of Genesis, his signature ability that lets him consume and brings to his essence. He also figured out how Ciel’s regeneration worked after seeing it in action only once.

Not to mention he also helped co-found the Burial Agency along with Narbareck, an agency of much higher ranked vampire hunters where he likely helped pass down many of its teachings/weaponry and also fought Dead Apostles for many years. Burial Agency members are regarded as superior to members of the Church, and only the strongest of executors are allowed within its ranks.

Roa throughout his life spent a great time researching on how to reach true immortality and studied about True Ancestors greatly. His knowledge on vampires was so great that he had deduced how Crimson Moon’s method of reincarnation worked, and said he had crafted a better method.



Equipment

Terumi

Butterfly Knives




Terumi’s go-to weapons when engaging in combat. He often uses them for vicious slashes and cuts and even keeps some in his shoes for good measure.

Geminus Anguium: Ouroboros




The eighth Nox Nyctores, a series of weapons designed to kill the Black Beast. Ouroboros takes the form of a long chain attached to a snake’s head. It has the ability to directly attack the mind, letting it affect a victim’s emotions and stir up lost memories. It can also enhance its strength by absorbing energy from Cauldrons and drag its victims into a dark void (7:53-8:34). Despite these abilities, Terumi typically uses it to restrain others, slash them, or swing around the battlefield.

Nox Nyctores weapons are considered a type of Grimoire and require an advanced use of Ars Magus (a combination of magic and science) to operate. The attacks inflicted by a Nox Nyctores are noted to have similar properties to those inflicted by magic, which can slow the healing abilities of others and are capable of “scarring the soul,” (27:55-28:14) though what this means exactly is never specified.

In addition to the major requirements needed to wield them, Nox Nyctores will cause “stress” on the user, exerting a mental pressure  and using the emotions and sensations it generates to enhance the Nox’s power. Anyone who can’t handle this “stress” will be driven mad and turn into violent murderers.

While the games typically show him only throwing out two chains at most, Alter Memory depicts Hazama/Terumi as being able to summon multiple chains consecutively while walking.

Hihiirokane



Also called the Time-Killing Blade, Hihiirokane is a powerful weapon that can shapeshift into different forms and cut both the body and soul, slowing the target’s healing in the process. Terumi eventually gained access to Hihiirokane after ransacking Clavis Alucard’s coffin, briefly absorbing it into his own body (3:43 - 4:02) before integrating it into Ouroboros.

Under his possession, Terumi was able to sever his connection with Hazama and shattered Hakumen’s soul with a single strike.

Susano’o Unit




(hear this hard ass theme though)

Terumi’s former body from when he was Takehaya Susano’o, the god of destruction. The Unit is sentient even without a host, and being inside it greatly enhances the user’s stats. While wearing it, Terumi gains the following abilities:

Roa

Knife




Seemingly a kitchen knife that SHIKI and Roa have shown some great skills with, likely due to Roa’s time as a church executor having handled many bladed weapons. It is tough enough to clash with Tohno’s super strong knife Nanatsu Yoru.

Black Keys






Once part of the Burial Agency, Roa was tasked with the mission of detaining vampires. Black Keys were often used by members of the Holy Church and Burial Agency alike to fight against vampires and other supernatural enemies, and with Roa being one of the founders of the Burial Agency, he would have exceptional knowledge and skill in these weapons. Some abilities these blades possess are:

Abilities

Terumi

Spirit Physiology




Terumi lacks a physical body due to his true form being an intangible spirit. In order to properly exist in the world, he needs a body of his own, which he can gain by Observing himself, using vessels created specifically to house his spirit, or when an outside influence forces his spirit to physically materialize using the Eye of Tomonori.

Seithr Manipulation




Like most of the playable cast, Terumi can manipulate an airborne substance known as seithr to aid him in combat. Usually this is done by enhancing his attacks with snake-shaped waves or firing them as projectiles.

Seithr is noted to be detrimental toward the human body, as overexposure can poison it and cause physical and mental deterioration, which will eventually prove fatal.

Acausality

Can recall the events of a time loop.

Extrasensory Perception




Could sense the presence of Trinity’s ghost.

Barriers

Created a barrier that mostly blocked Hakumen’s slash.

Invulnerability

It’s stated that Terumi exists outside of logic/reason, making him immune to harm from natural elements and conventional weaponry and requiring magic or magic-based attacks to harm him.

Regeneration

Terumi possesses a minor healing factor that allows him to quickly regenerate from cuts. He can even heal damage to his soul, though it takes up to five years.

Cauldron Empowerment




While in the presence of a Cauldron, Terumi’s strength and speed are heavily amped and his healing factor is boosted.

Emotional Empowerment



Terumi is able to enhance his strength using the fear and hatred directed toward him. He’s even used Ragna’s hatred to anchor himself into the world, and the stronger that grudge gets, the stronger Terumi’s link becomes (26:58-27:43).

Absorption




Terumi can absorb weapons and other beings into himself to boost his power and gain their abilities.

Mind Eater

A spell unique to the version listed below, Terumi used Mind Eater several times while he was merged with Hazama, using it to torture Saya, erase Jin’s memories of his childhood, and prevent him from remembering the Ikaruga Civil War. Mind Eater can be used to devour (19:00-19:14) and erase memories (17:20-17:50), or leave them stranded in the Boundary (18:42-18:59). It can also force a victim to relive memories down to the sensations (46:03-46:23).

Mind Eater (Opprimo Vinculum)

A spell that fires a purple light into a victim’s forehead, forcing them to obey the caster’s every command. The recipient will be unable to disobey their master’s commands, and they won’t be able to lie. However, the more open-ended a command is, the more leeway the victim has to find loopholes. Terumi figured this out while he was brainwashed by Nine and learned the spell for himself, eventually turning it on her.

Phenomenon Intervention



In the world of Blazblue, there exists an ability known as Phenomenon Intervention, in which reality is altered to replace past events. Users of this ability are called Observers, and the ability to enforce these events is known as Observing. However, this process drains a lot of the Observer’s stamina.

In Terumi’s case, he can perform self-Observation, a “crude method” that allowed him to escape after he was sealed in the Boundary by Jubei and Hakumen. He later used this to resurrect from Hakumen’s Time Killer, a move that was supposed to erase him from existence, though without a vessel he could only maintain his existence for one week and his spirit form would remain fully exposed (3:00-3:45). It’s also noted that the longer he uses self-Observation, the weaker he becomes (1:53-2:28, 2:55-3:22).

Immortality



Hazama states that Observers- even former ones- are unable to die, and being an Observer himself, this would extend to Terumi as well. For what this entails, see the “Before the Verdict” section.

Roa

Magecraft



In the Nasuverse, Magecraft is the ability that Magi use to re-enact or make already existing phenomena such as mysteries or miracles possible by using magical energy. And Roa is noted to be exceptionally skilled at it. But his primary method of using it is Numerology. With it Roa can utilize lightning magecraft to fire blasts of lightning projectiles and even amp his speed for faster movement. But he can use it in other ways such as covering his body in electricity either to attack or defend himself, shock people upon contact, or create massive balls of electricity.

His magecraft isn’t just lightning though. Despite losing some of his knowledge, Roa has tailored his magic to other uses. He can create mist as a distraction or create fake copies of himself to catch the enemy off guard. He's even shapeshifted to his original body. He should also have telekinesis and the ability to create barriers that are able to disrupt electrical sources too since Ciel’s knowledge and abilities on Magecraft are from Roa.

Bounded Field



After setting up magical crests around an area, Roa can activate them to absorb the magical energy of everyone within its radius, forming a Bounded Field. Additionally, the power gained from this will automatically repair the damage to the area he deems his lair.

Vampiric Physiology



In the world of Tsukihime there exists two types of vampires: the progenitor of the classical vampires The True Ancestors and their successors the Dead Apostles. Dead Apostles to summarize are humans who became vampires through their magical research or had their blood sucked by a True Ancestor, which is the latter in Roa’s case. This made him far more powerful, durable and faster than the average person or bloodsucker and lets him jump incredible distances. And since he absorbed part of Arcueid’s power for himself, his strength and abilities can even grow further under the light of a full moon. 

Speaking of bloodsucking, that’s how Roa maintains his existence and fuels/grows many of his powers like his Immortality or lightning, by biting the necks of any person and draining their energy and blood until they have nearly none left in their bloodstream. This blood draining can even turn humans into his own personal zombie minions known as The Dead, which he can control simultaneously like puppets on strings to get more and more blood.

Regeneration




Vampires in Tsukihime possess a specific method of regeneration, called the "Curse of Restoration." Through this curse, any conventional damage done to Roa such as cutting his limbs, cutting him in half, and stabbing him in the chest can be simply undone by reversing the time in his body allowing him to return it to a prior state. Under a full moon this regeneration can even be amped to the point that he can survive most of his body being obliterated; with only his ankles remaining.

Mystic Eyes of Enchantment

A common ability among Dead Apostles, the Eyes of Enchantment allows the user to bind someone through simple eye contact.

Reincarnation


(gamers don’t die, they respawn)

Roa didn’t get such awesome nicknames like the Infinite Reincarnator or the Serpent of Akasha just for nothing. During his research to essentially reach his own vision of “true immortality” he discovered a method that basically ensures that. To be brief, whenever Roa’s current body dies or it’s in a state where it no longer can put up a fight, he will desperately pass the information of his being/soul as an electromagnetic wave to transmit onto a new host of his choosing, in this case newborn babies! Though it should be noted that this process isn’t instant and Roa will not reincarnate until his host has matured to a certain age or he deems them at a suitable enough stage to use his power. So it can take entire decades for him to return, and when he finally reincarnates, he gains the abilities, personality, and experiences of his current host.

Hosts

SHIKI Tohno




The son of Makihisa Tohno and Roa’s 18th reincarnation. In his childhood years, he befriended Shiki Nanaya after the latter was adopted into the Tohno family. Unfortunately, SHIKI would soon fall to his Inversion Impulse, a state of mind that the Tohno family has due to their human blood being mixed with oni blood, that drives them insane and murderous. SHIKI immediately went to attack his sister, Akiha Tohno, but instead nearly fatally injured Nanaya, who shielded Akiha from the attack. SHIKI was then promptly killed by his father Makihisa, who, as the head of the Tohno family at the time, had to kill any family member who fell to their Inversion Impulse. However, SHIKI shortly revived after. His attack on Nanaya not only nearly killed his adoptive brother, but SHIKI had also stolen some of his life force, which allowed him to resurrect.

Upon reviving, SHIKI managed to regain some of his sanity, and Makihisa, unsure about killing his son again, instead locked him in the Tohno Mansion cellar, where he would stay imprisoned for 8 years in the hopes he would heal completely from his Inversion Impulse. Following his imprisonment, SHIKI was replaced with Nanaya, who was then named Shiki Tohno in his place. This was orchestrated by Makihisa as to not let the larger public know of the circumstances that had befallen the Tohno family. Over years, SHIKI would grow to despise his former best friend Nanaya, given he effectively took SHIKI’s life, name, and family after being replaced. Eventually, SHIKI would kill his father, and be taken care of by Kohaku primarily instead, a maid serving the Tohno family. This ultimately would lead to SHIKI’s pursuit to kill Nanaya and Akiha, as Kohaku secretly planned to use him in a revenge driven scheme that would perpetuate the majority of Tsukihime.

Ciel



A girl who used to work at a bakery. Originally called Elesia, she became Roa’s 17th reincarnation. Roa found out that Elesia was the perfect vessel due to her magic potential, and after possessing her, he slowly took over her consciousness and drove her insane. After taking full control, Roa slaughtered all of her friends and family, leaving nothing behind but a ghost town. He was hunted down and killed by Arcueid soon after. However, Ciel miraculously survived and was soon taken in by the Burial Agency, where she would help them hunt down supernatural enemies, and hope to one day get her revenge against Roa.

Mystic Eyes of Death Perception




After dying and reincarnating many times over and over, Roa eventually gained the ability to perceive “life” on people in the form of “lines” and “points”. The lines are where things break most easily, and the points are where the “life” in the target is contained. When Roa traces or stabs these lines/points, their life force and energy is effectively drained out of their being, resulting in their death.

Movesets

Terumi

Force Eater



Terumi’s Drive, or unique in-game ability, that allows him to gain extra Heat from attacks and blocks, giving him more opportunity for damaging combos. When these moves hit, his opponents are unable to gain Heat of their own.

Snakebite



Terumi rushes forward and swings his arm if he hits the opponent, knocking them to the ground.

Retaliating Fang



Terumi slashes the opponent with Ouroboros, sending them into the air and wrapping them in its chains. Terumi then strikes a JoJo pose as the opponent is launched away.

Cleaving Fang




Terumi repeatedly stomps on his foe and kicks them away.

Agonizing Fang




A seithr-infused headbutt that causes knockdown on hit.

Nightmare Reaper



A temporary “super mode” that increases the Heat gained from Drive attacks, drains the opponent’s meter when they block or get hit by Drive attacks, and lets Terumi cancel his supers into other supers.

Gleaming Fang



Terumi wraps himself in a snake-shaped aura of seithr and lunges forward, launching the opponent. With Nightmare Reaper active, he follows up with a second lunge.

Divine Twin Blades



Terumi performs two seithr-infused flash kicks then slams the opponent into the ground with a heel kick.

Serpent’s Laceration



Terumi knocks his foe down with a sweep kick, stomps them into the ground, then knocks them across the screen with a seithr-infused kick.

Venomous Bite



Terumi casually strolls forward while juggling Ouroboros. If the opponent hits him, he’ll jump over them, ensnare them in Ouroboros, and crush them with the coils to unleash an X-shaped slash. This final hit knocks the opponent down, giving Terumi more opportunity for combos.

Serpent’s Cursed Sting



Two slashes with Ouroboros stun the enemy, then Terumi grabs them with two snake-shaped seithr constructs that rapidly inject Heat into them, eventually causing an explosion. Alternatively, he can chain it into other Distortions, as seen above

Screeches of the Condemned



Terumi sends out two Ouroboros chains to capture the opponent, then swings back and forth as he assaults them with six kicks, ending by dropping down with a seithr-infused diving attack.

Dungeon of Serpents



An outward flying kick that launches the opponent as Terumi plants his hand on the ground, creating a sigil and swinging his arm to summon a massive den of snake constructs. By using more aggressive tactics before this move, Terumi will instead create a giant snake.

The Unholy Wrath of the Basilisk



Terumi throws two Ouroboros chains at the opponent’s feet. If it hits, he opens a portal that bombards them with snakes, then transforms into a Susano’o-esque form, summons a sword, and finishes them with a heavy slash.

Divine Warrior



Susano’o’s Drive, which allows him to unlock his special moves through normal attacks. Each regular attack will unlock one of his eight special moves in numerical order.

Tearing Down: Mad Claw



First special move, where Susano’o dashes forward and slams his arm into the opponent, sending them spinning through the air.

Towering Flame



Second move. Susano’o punches the ground, creating spikes of energy that send an opponent into the air.

Megalith



Third move. A kick that ruptures the ground, uprooting stone and hitting the opponent with a quick energy blast.

Hunter’s Fang



Fourth move. Susano’o hops forward, spins through the air, and slams into the ground, knocking his foe back.

Dual Dancing Kick



Fifth move. Susano’o rushes forward, hitting his target multiple times, and unleashes a high kick that sends them into the air.

Inevitable Calamity



Sixth move. Susano’o discharges energy from his palm, which can hit multiple times and absorb or reflect projectiles depending on the game.

Splintering Thrust



Seventh move. Susano’o charges toward the opponent, grabs them, slams them into the wall, and blasts them with an energy-infused punch.

Blade of Judgment



Eighth move. Susano’o creates a blade of energy and throws a horizontal slash that nearly reaches full screen.

Shrieks of the Entombed



A temporary “super mode” that lets Susano’o use the strongest versions of his special moves and gives him access to Collapsing Resentment.

Liberating Dagger



A stronger, invulnerable version of Blade of Judgment that reaches the full screen.

Strike of the Possessed God



A combo of each special move Susano’o has unlocked which ends with him firing a massive beam.

Collapsing Resentment

Unlocks all special moves.

Roar of the Mad King



Susano’o grabs the opponent, slams them into the ground, and sends them flying off screen. He then creates a massive blade as energy encircles him and creates a massive downward slash. Numerous energy slashes fill the screen, erasing the opponent from existence and destroying the battlefield.

Roa

Thunder Needle



Roa fires bolts of lightning from his hand in the form of needles. The EX version can create up to three bolts of lightning.

Thunder Needle - Moment



Same as before, but Roa uses some sort of orb/magical crest to fire his lightning mid-air. He can fire it repeatedly like a machine-gun in the EX version.

Thunder Flash



Roa uses his numerology to travel as a bolt of lightning, rushing over his opponent many times over.

Funeral Fire Grab



Roa delivers a killer backhand imbued with his lightning.

Rising Thunder



Roa leaps up into the air as he covers his body in lightning, with the lightning shocking his opponent multiple times.

Brilliant Impetus - Ghost Tail



Roa covers himself in lightning mid-air.

Numerology - Nest of Snakes



Roa can place and denotate several orbs of lightning to trap his opponent. He can even put them mid air to fire horizontally.

Secret Thunder Needle



Roa calls down bolts of lightning to strike his opponent.

Numerology - Thunder Isolation



Roa charges his numerology to fire an enormous bolt of lightning into his opponent, while pulling off a killer MJ pose befitting his appearance.

Heavenly Crashing Thunder



Roa blasts his enemy with lightning, restraining them in magic circles. The opponent is slowly dragged between two sigils before a third one appears, causing each one to hit them with massive bolts.

Hollow Course - Seventeen Reincarnations



Roa pulls off a command grab and summons his Reality Marble, Overload. As his opponent is overwhelmed and eaten by snakes of darkness which he can control, the Reality Marble also doubles the potential of any of his magic through “Square” (though it drains 30% of his power).


Resistances

Terumi

Biological Manipulation and Life Manipulation:
Can naturally survive in the presence of seithr due to being born in the Boundary, which is full of it. He also survived being in close proximity to the Black Beast, whose body was made of seithr stated to absorb the life force of living beings.


Soul Manipulation, Information Manipulation, and Mental Manipulation:
Terumi can naturally exist within the Boundary, a dimension of infinite information that places stress on the body and soul of those who travel through it and removes (5:18-5:35) or messes withtheir memories (2:30-3:27). And during the brief period where he absorbed Noel, he claimed that doing so would allow him to survive Doomsday, a ritual that drags souls into the Azure and resets the world.


Sealing and Existence Erasure:
By using self-Observation, he could escape from being sealed in the Boundary and temporarily resurrect from a technique meant to erase him from existence.


Transmutation:
As one of the Chosen, Terumi is affected at a slower rate by the Embryo’s ability to turn others into seithr (7:00-7:43).


Absolute Zero:
Withstood Jin’s ice attacks, which were able to freeze Azrael, who survived in near absolute zero temperatures for two years.


Time Manipulation:
When Nine froze time for a week, Terumi was among the few still active.


Spatial Manipulation:
Endured repeated shots from Bolverk, which is capable of piercing space with its shots.

Roa

Denier of Human History:
All Dead Apostles exist to deny the laws of humans, and can negate magecraft and protections specifically being used by humans.


Hypnosis and Paralysis:
Magi can resist hypnosis, paralysis, and coercion relatively easily due to their magic circuits repelling such effects.
  • Note, it's stated that this resistance applies to indirect methods of attacking, and direct/physical attacks will ignore this resistance entirely.

Absorption:
Magi are stated to be able to survive or be unaffected by the effects of Bounded Fields. Lesser magi like Rin have been able to resist the effects of Rider Medusa’s Bloodfort Andromeda even at their strongest point, which can melt and dissolve humans until they’re reduced into puddles of blood and then absorb them into magical energy.


Forms

Terumi

Spirit Form




The true “body” of Terumi, which he can turn into by leaving his current body or if his vessel is slain. This makes it so destroying his physical body won’t be enough to kill him, requiring the destruction of his soul or erasing him from existence to do so. Terumi is intangible in this state, though he can still physically interact with the world.

Materialized Body



Terumi’s appearance whenever he Observes himself or his spirit body is rendered tangible by the Eye of Tomonori.

Susano’o




The ACTUAL true form of Terumi back when he was bonded with the Susano’o Unit. He later regained it after killing Hakumen, and can summon the dormant Unit to merge with whenever he wishes. While inside, he becomes more serious and feels an overwhelming urge to destroy everything. However, this merge isn’t perfect. He has trouble maintaining it for long periods and can even be torn out of the Susano’o Unit.


Feats

Terumi

Overall

  • Is directly or indirectly responsible for nearly every bad event that’s happened in the series
  • Co-founded the Novus Orbis Librarium alongside Seven of the Ten Sages and later founded Sector Seven
  • Fought Hakumen and Jubei and would’ve killed them if Jubei hadn’t used Tomonori’s Eye
  • Killed Nine and later enslaved her after she was resurrected
  • Tricked Noel into resurrecting him through Observation
  • Ended the Continuum Shift by infecting Takamagahara with Phantom’s virus
  • Killed Hakumen and regained his full power as Susano’o
  • Fought Ragna in a final battle to obtain the True Azure

Strength



Feats performed in specific vessels will have an indicator


Speed




Durability



Roa

Overall

  • Co-founded the Burial Agency along with Narbareck.
  • Can fight with fallen True Ancestors and Dead Apostle Ancestors.
  • Tricked Arcueid into turning him into a vampire.
  • Became the strongest Dead Apostle Ancestor and took leadership of the DAAs as their 28th member.
  • Killed the remaining True Ancestors after Arcueid’s rampage.
  • Defeated Altrouge Brunestud.
  • Was the one responsible for many of the serial killings in Misaki City
  • Has defeated Ciel more than once (she takes constant Ls in the OG timeline)
  • Honest Mids Michael

Strength




Speed






Durability



Weaknesses

Terumi



Terumi might be a master schemer and manipulator, but even he has his downsides. He’s extremely sadistic, and will forgo Ouroboros’ abilities or his more powerful magics in favor of getting into the thick of combat with his knives. His status as a god has made him extremely cocky and arrogant, to the point of sometimes goading opponents into attacking or trying to kill him. And should things stop going his way or something happens that he doesn’t expect, he’ll either fly into a berserk rage or start panicking.

It’s been stated that weapons like Hihiirokane are able to kill him, and should his physical body and spirit be destroyed at the same time, he’ll die. Even without that, his spirit body is vulnerable to soul manipulation, and it’s inherently weakened in the presence of people and objects that can nullify seithr.

And while he can draw strength from the fear and hatred of others, his reliance on it is also his biggest downside. If he’s in the presence of someone who can control their feelings, he’ll be drastically weakened, and if there’s no one around to hate or fear him, he’s as good as dead, which eventually led to his downfall.

Roa



For all of Roa’s incredible power and prowess in magecraft, even he's not without his share of flaws. Upon reincarnating into a different host, it takes him years to take over their consciousness, and if one knows his pattern of usually picking a host that's wealthy and talented, his whereabouts can be found relatively easily. He is also significantly weakened each time he reincarnates. Years of reincarnating over and over has made him lose the knowledge and power he once had at his prime, although within enough time spent in the body of a host, this can be regained over time, and he still has some remembrance of some of these skills. His cycle of reincarnation can also be ended by soul destroying abilities or conceptual weapons that can overwrite his cycle of reincarnation, killing him permanently.

Roa’s Mystic Eyes of Death, while very similar to the ones wielded by Shiki Tohno and Shiki Ryougi, has a key difference, that being that he doesn't actually see “death”, but “life”. As such, he can only see “points” and “lines” on things he registers as “alive”, so inanimate objects are exempt from this.

Roa also shares the weakness common among most Dead Apostles, that being exposure to sunlight. Conceptual weapons can also negate his time reversing regeneration, and complete obliteration of his body all at once would also bypass his regeneration since he'd have nothing to regenerate from.

His innate rejection of magic used by humans can also be negated by a non-human opponent.


Summary

Terumi




Advantages
  • = in abilities
  • More versatile in weaponry
  • Bypasses Roa’s Denial of Human History due to being a god
  • Hihiirokane could potentially end Roa’s reincarnation and destroy his soul if it ever lands a fatal blow
  • As Susano’o he could absorb and reflect Roa’s lightning attacks
  • Resists Roa’s Eyes of Death
  • Being a spirit, he should resist the Mummification Rite…
  • Self-Observation could potentially keep him in the game…
  • Can break Michael Roa’s ass with the power of mathematics 
  • Doug Erholtz as Terumi was the only good part of Alter Memory

Disadvantages
  • Weaker to an extent without Roa’s cosmic ends, and with them he just lacks the AP needed to deal damage on his own
  • Gets blitzed
  • Can’t resist the Mystic Eyes of Enchantment
  • While it’s highly unlikely he’d use it, Roa would easily resist his absorption
  • …However, the shadow binding and Interment Rite could still affect him
  • …But the stamina drain, strength drain, and vague timeframe of his revival make its usage in combat questionable
  • Sadism would prevent him from killing Roa right off the bat, allowing SHIKI/Roa to develop resistances to his abilities
  • Was still in Alter Memory
  • Actually, his ass IS touching the ground (he’s on his tippy toes you blithering ponce)

Roa




Advantages
  • = in abilities
  • Between his time as an Executor of the Church and fighting against it after becoming a vampire, likely has more fighting experience
  • Resists Terumi’s mental and absorption hax
  • Much, much faster
  • Decently stronger even without cosmic ends and just AP stomps with them
  • Can prevent Terumi from touching him by covering himself in electricity
  • Can brainwash Terumi with the Mystic Eyes of Enchantment
  • Copies could trick Terumi since he’s been fooled by similar methods before
  • Better regen
  • SHIKI’s ability to gain resistances through exposure, when combined with Terumi’s sadism, would let him nullify most of Terumi’s combative abilities
  • ROA GAMING

Disadvantages
  • Denial of Human History resistance won’t affect Terumi’s abilities
  • Hihiirokane’s ability to destroy souls would end his reincarnations and permakill him if it landed a fatal hit
  • Lightning can be absorbed and reflected by Susano’o
  • Eyes of Death gets resisted
  • The remake fucked up his hair
  • His appearance in Melty Blood Type Lumina makes no sense (seriously, his ladder in Type Lumina is just his ladder from Actress Again, except Tataris don't exist in Tsukihime remake's lore as of now. Nasu, what were you cooking here…)

Before the Verdict

The Immortality of Observers



(Image done by T0m)

During the events of Centralfiction, Hazama at one point decides to kidnap Rachel and begins torturing her to see how much pain she can withstand. Right before he begins the torture, he says that as an Observer- or in her case, former Observer- she’s unable to die. This statement on its own blatantly says Observers are effectively immortal, and since Terumi has the ability to Observe himself, this statement should apply to him. So why are we dedicating an entire section to talking about it?

Well, the scenes involving Hazama and Rachel go back and forth as to whether or not that actually is true. Hazama later says he’s going to test if she can die or not, which is a bit odd to say considering he previously said she couldn’t. He also brings up her regeneration by talking about how his magic restraints will “cut her existence into pieces,” and implies she could come back from this after being dumped in the Boundary, but that it would take a long time.

Hazama then tortures her and finds out she can withstand enough pain to kill someone ten times over. We later get another exchange about how she can’t die, though Relius says there are still ways of killing immortals. Hazama eventually kills her hundreds of times, but she “refuses to die” and later says dropping her in the Cauldron could make her die forever. This torture eventually leaves Rachel so weak that Hazama actually questions if she died from a hit from Ouroboros.

Even without these contradictory scenes there’s still a major problem with the claim that Observers can’t die. Clavis, the Observer that preceded Rachel, did die, presumably of natural causes considering Phase Shift’s narration draws attention to his age and poor physical condition.

In short, the full extent of an Observer’s immortality and regeneration is a bit vague. While Rachel’s torture shows that she (and by extension other Observers) have some impressive regen, it’s arguably unreliable in a vs debate considering the amount of time she needed for the regen to work.

Terumi’s Other Immortalities

Aside from being an Observer, Terumi is listed as having various other types of immortality by other vs debaters or sites, usually based on the following: Nine’s statement that destroying his spirit form is useless because he’ll continue to exist as long as he’s Yuki Terumi, his connection to the world being too deeply tied to his status as Susano’o, using this screenshot as proof that he’ll come back as long as he’s hated, and his self-Observation letting him resurrect from Hakumen’s Time Killer.

Starting with Nine’s statement, there’s the problem of the story itself blatantly contradicting her. Hihiirokane, a weapon that has multiple statements of being able to harm both the body and soul, is also stated to be capable of killing him by Rachel and Nine in a scene that takes place after her statement about destroying his soul. We even see it cut through him, and while he technically didn’t die at that point because he got dragged into the Gate, he still dies later on from Ragna’s Soul Eater. Even factoring in the statement from Phase Shift that he could heal injuries to his spirit form, Terumi admits it took years to do so, and later in the same chapter the narration says “A wound to his spirit form wouldn’t be easily healed.” Given this evidence, even if you were to interpret Nine’s Act 1 statement as saying Terumi would come back from soul destruction, it would take too long to factor into a vs debate.

Next are the statements about his connection to the world and Ragna’s hatred bringing him into the world. While they might not seem similar from looking at them, both conversations revolve around how Terumi’s existence is derived from the emotions directed toward him, namely fear and hatred. These emotions make him stronger and let him remain anchored to the world, but they don’t make it harder or impossible to kill him. They just let him remain stabilized in the physical world without vanishing, similar to how Kokonoe keeps Arakune alive via Observation or how Jin used the Power of Order to keep Platinum from fading from existence.

Finally, there’s Terumi’s self-Observation. Though he was able to resurrect from death with this, it’s never shown how long this process takes. When Hakumen hit him with it, his body vanished, then he just shows back up in the next game. Even if we assume this resurrection took place instantly, it’s not like he can just keep doing it whenever he receives a fatal blow. Observing is explicitly stated to drain the user’s stamina, and Terumi is no exception, with Hazama noting that it makes him weaker (1:53-2:28, 2:55-3:22). This means that in a combat scenario self-Observation would amount to Terumi bringing himself back just so he can die again a few seconds later (assuming his opponent has a high enough stat advantage).


TL;DR
  • Nine statement: Has multiple statements contradicting it, including from Nine herself, and the examples you could use to support it have massive asterisks to them.

  • Connection to the world and coming back through hatred: These let him maintain his existence physically, but they aren’t viable means of immortality.

  • Self-Observation: Legit, but the vague timeframe and drain to his stamina and strength prevent it from being useful.

Azrael and the Embryo



(Image done by Br3ndan5)

During his resurrection, Terumi as Susano’o demolishes Ragna from the outset, with Ragna saying his strength is superior to Azrael’s. Azrael is one of the bigger powerhouses in Blazblue, capable of firing a bullet with his bare hands hard enough to kill a man, punching men across cities, causing earthquakes through sheer strength, and matching the power of top tier fighters like Izanami. But his most ludicrous feats come from his ability to tear through the fabric of space, to the point where he can rip through the Embryo and tear through frozen space time with his bare hands.

Some of you might be thinking, “Okay, that sounds cool and all, but what’s the Embryo?”

In essence, the Embryo is a pocket dimension created to imprison the Master Unit: Amaterasu. It was activated when Izanami tricked Noel into Observing it, causing the Embryo to absorb the outside world (17:46-18:10), reducing it to a white void and transforming the Embryo into a reflection of the previous universe. The Embryo’s existence is only temporary, and should someone Amaterasu deems as “qualified” defeat Izanami, the Embryo will be “released” and a new world will be created. If no one defeats Izanami, the Embryo would die and the universe would slowly end (19:29-20:21).

That sounds simple on its own, but there are a few other details. Aside from the previous world, the Embryo also contains “event fragments,” small pieces of alternate timelines that lost their ability to generate possible futures (1:57-2:20) and only exist for brief moments. It’s also shown that Naoto Kurogane, who is from another world, was placed in the Embryo after his world was destroyed (11:39-12:05). Naoto’s world is considered one of the possible worlds created by the Embryo (9:53-10:44), despite its events chronologically occurring before the destruction of the main world and having its own separate history (5:29-6:28). As time goes on, the Embryo eventually removes these possible worlds until only one remains, at which point the Embryo slowly breaks down and dies.

Since Azrael was able to tear through something like this, that would mean he and anyone comparable to him would physically scale to the Embryo, right?

No, not at all.

As shown at the start, every instance of Azrael affecting space is depicted more as a form of spatial hax. We even see him shift space by stepping at one point. And while he does accomplish these examples with physical strength, it isn’t done in a way that can exactly translate to Attack Potency. Azrael being able to physically tear through space is impressive, but that doesn’t mean he’s affecting the entire Embryo. He’d just be ripping a hole through a small portion of it.

Should Terumi scale to the Embryo from absorbing Noel?

It’s highly unlikely that he would. While the Embryo was kickstarted through Noel’s actions and is said to be a reflection of her will, she lacks direct control over the Embryo, and manipulating it isn’t a matter of physical power. Controlling the Embryo requires the use of Observation, which is more akin to reality warping. And if you doubt that absorbing Noel doesn’t boost his physical stats, here’s Terumi right before it’s revealed he absorbed Noel blatantly stating that he’d need an entire world fearing him to surpass the Black Beast in strength.

Besides, it’s not like Terumi would have any interest in showing if he could manipulate the Embryo. Not only would that world be under the authority of Amaterasu, something he’d despise, the reason he absorbed Noel was to become immune to Phenomenon Intervention. Even if we wanted to make an argument that absorbing Noel would somehow let Terumi scale to the Embryo, he would’ve only done so for an extremely small timeframe. From the time we learn of him absorbing her, Terumi’s screen time with this “amp” amounts to a massive exposition dump about his motives and two back to back fights before he loses it.

Magic, Nox Nyctores, and Transcending Phenomenon Intervention

During Chronophantasma, there’s a scene where Ragna gets attacked by Phantom. Rachel tries to get him to the Kaka hot springs because his wounds were caused by magic, which will slow his healing. She goes on to explain that magic wounds will cause scarring to the soul and transcend Phenomenon Intervention, and Nox Nyctores wounds will do the same.

This is later followed up on after a fight with Nu-13 where the timeline gets rewound, yet Ragna’s wounds still return to him. There are even flashbacks to Rachel’s words in the second example.

So does this mean that Terumi, as a fellow Nox user, would be able to negate Roa’s Curse of Restoration, which heals him by rewinding time?

Short answer: no. Long answer?

While there are other showings and statements that magic can slow others’ healing, there is no other instance of wounds returning to their victim after Phenomenon Intervention like with Ragna.

Why is that? Well, Rachel says it herself:








For comparison here’s the Japanese version:






In the first statement, Japanese version includes the kanji も which can be used to mean “also.” Thus, Rachel’s statement in Japanese reads:

“Magical attacks also imprint wounds on your soul.

Especially in your case, the Blue Grimoire also remembers the wound. It transcends event interference.”

“It’s the same with wounds sustained by Arch-Enemies. I’m sure you remember a little?”

In other words, the Japanese version is even more explicit when it says only Ragna’s wounds transcend Phenomenon Intervention. And it’s not like there are any other examples that would disprove this claim, since- as mentioned above- Ragna’s the only one shown to be affected by this.

Kokonoe’s Black Hole




(Image done by T0m)

In one of Kokonoe’s Distortion Drives, “Armament No.7 ‘Jamming Dark v1.65,’” she uses her magic to create what appears to be a black hole, with the move’s description even labeling it as such. The output for this has been calculated at a little over 2 yottatons of TNT, However, whether or not this actually meets the requirements for a black hole is another matter entirely.

To put it simply, there are several qualities needed to prove something is a black hole. They are:
  • A statement describing it as a black hole
  • Having an event horizon
  • Sucking in light
  • Being created through manipulating space time
  • It isn’t destroyed through physical means
  • There needs to be a statement or evidence that all matter sucked into the "black hole" is destroyed
  • The “black hole” needs to show signs of spaghettification. In other words, matter being stretched or compressed in its presence
Out of this list the only ones shown by Kokonoe’s Distortion Drive are the description calling it a black hole and the inability to be physically destroyed in-game. However, the move’s description only specifies that the opponent is sucked in, and it’s shown in gameplay that the hole absorbs them but not any projectiles. As for the other qualifications?

It isn’t shown to have an event horizon or suck in light. It isn’t created through manipulating space time, and the opponent instantly flies out of the “black hole” after the move is completed. Even trying to argue for spaghettification is a bit tough because the opponent gets covered in a bunch of metal gears as soon as they're sucked in.

To summarize, while Kokonoe’s Jamming Dark meets a few requirements to be considered a legitimate black hole, it doesn’t meet enough for the argument to be considered airtight.

Infinite/Immeasurable Blazblue

We discussed this more extensively in a previous blog, but for a TL;DR:

The arguments used to claim the cast would possess infinite or immeasurable speeds from crossing the Boundary- which is said to be infinite in size- are heavily contradicted by context or other examples from the games. Valkenhayn’s claim that Relius passing through the Boundary let him transcend time and space is in reference to time travel (18:12-19:03), and the argument that characters are able to travel through the Boundary via sheer speed is shown to be inconsistent since some characters can move in there and others can’t. Even then, the evidence provided for those that can doesn’t necessarily hold up to scrutiny, like Terumi “strolling” through the Boundary being used as proof of him crossing an infinite distance.

The other arguments, such as Terumi infecting Takamagahara before they could react, is blatantly contradicted by both Terumi and Takamagahara stating there was a finite timeframe, as well as the massive gap between when Terumi reveals himself and when he infects the AIs.

Roa’s Hosts



Roa has had a few notable hosts across his incarnations. This match will specifically focus on his SHIKI incarnation, as it's the one Roa is depicted in over 99% of the time, as well as just the most iconic.

Moreover, Roa’s power varies massively depending on who he reincarnates into. None of the people he possessed over the years ever reached the power he had in his original body after being bitten by Arcueid. However, given enough time, any of his hosts would slowly reach this level, since Roa does regain his memories and power the longer he lives in a host. Since he was always killed by Arcueid relatively fast upon fully taking over the conscience of the possessed, this never happens in the story though. Since it's a peak that can realistically be achieved within reason, Roa in SHIKI’s body, but with all his knowledge of magecraft and power back, will be analyzed for the verdict.

How big is Gaia?

(Oh boy Type Moon lore. Fun.)

As you've seen above in the “stats” section for Roa, the Moon Cell scanning calc assumes that Earth/Gaia is of a universal size minimum. To elaborate on this further:

We know as far back as the original Tsukihime that Gaia has another reality on top of the “normal” one.

“Also, it is assumed that in the world of Tsukihime there exists another world on top of the normal world, things like legendary lands and countries of eternal spring, products of the imagination of the fairies that rule over this alien world. Consequently, it is possible for humans to wander into them by accident.”
^ Tsukihime Data Collection


Fate Apocrypha also reaffirms this statement.

“The place where the evil dragon Fafnir finally arrived at the very end of the novels. The Phantasmal Races, having understood that the Age of the Gods was over, ceded the Earth’s surface to humans and moved to this place. The world where humans currently live (including the laws of physics) is like a fabric that thinly extends across the surface of the planet. Beneath that fabric exist the planet known as “Earth.” On the other hand, the Reverse Side of the World is the world as it was before humans lived there… that is, the fabric of the era where Phantasmal Races strode the land. In other words, the Earth is the bottommost layer of the planet, and it is covered by the “Reverse Side of the World”—the place where the laws of the “world” as it once was reigns, and covering that is the “Present World.”
^ Fate/Apocrypha Material

Melty Blood Actress Again also gives us a brief look into the Reverse Side, with it being shown to contain a cosmos.



Fate/Strange Fake also clarifies that the “normal” reality is of a universal size. The fight between Gilgamesh and Enkidu has a statement saying Gil’s Ea compressed the universe around it, which obviously can't be referring to the “actual universe” itself in Type Moon terms, since the effect of this only extended to Gaia.






^ This feat from F/SF has lead many to doubt Gilgamesh really “compressed” the universe and think its just a hyperbolic statement since nothing in the narrative implies he affected anything beyond Gaia… and yes, this isn't compleeeeetely incorrect because “universe” in this sense is just referring to how big celestial bodies in Type Moon are. He didn't affect the “true universe”/all of space time outside of Gaia, just the universes that make up Gaia. It's even what "Gilgamesh and Enkidu were destroying and recreating the World seven times" is referring to.





The anime of Strange Fake visually shows a cosmos compressing in the background.



So yeah, tl;dr both sides of the argument over Gilgamesh’s feat in Strange Fake are equally right and wrong. Yeah, he and Enkidu never affected anything beyond Gaia/Earth. The feat is still of a cosmic scale though, because “universe” in this context means the realities that make up Gaia itself. There not being some cataclysmic destruction everywhere isn't an anti feat either, as that just has to do with Gaia being a sentient planet that's capable of nullifying any potential threats to itself. This here is called the Counter Force for those less familiar with Type Moon, but we won't be going too deep into further mechanics of the verse here since that bit is irrelevant, and all this is going over is Gaia being a multiverse.

And to those that claim you can “just dig to the Reverse Side”, refer to the statement from the Tsukihime Data Collection from earlier. The Reverse Side exists on top of the normal reality.

“Also, it is assumed that in the world of Tsukihime there exists another world on top of the normal world, things like legendary lands and countries of eternal spring, products of the imagination of the fairies that rule over this alien world. Consequently, it is possible for humans to wander into them by accident.”

Now, the Reverse Side being on top of the reality occupied by humans is specific to Tsukihime, since in Fate, the “normal reality” is described as being above the Reverse Side, as evidenced by the Fate Apocrypha material from earlier.

“In other words, the Earth is the bottommost layer of the planet, and it is covered by the “Reverse Side of the World”—the place where the laws of the “world” as it once was reigns, and covering that is the “Present World.”

This is just due to worldline differences between Fate and Tsukihime. It's not contradictory either, since Fate and Tsukihime having key differences in lore has been an established thing since forever. Though in both cases, the Reverse Side isn't something that one can “just dig to,” being a completely different reality that's separate from the normal one.


How big is the Moon Cell and the actual moon?

Alright time for everyone’s favorite “cosmic” topic in regards to Type Moon stats, that being the Moon Cell, an observational alien device that has been scanning Gaia since its creation. The Fate EX world's version of the moon. As to why it's important to cover the Moon Cell and moon both in one section, it’s because the moon itself is outright stated to be comparable to the Moon Cell. I'll try and keep this fairly short, but straightforward.




^“In the future, when looking back on this crystal device that just shows people dreams, Moon Cell will be called thus.

The Moon’s Eye.

A bottomless Klein Cube.

The observer of everything on our planet, and a Type-Moon whose master is no longer around.”

^ Fate/Extra Material

This is referring to Crimson Moon and his authority and control over the real moon, the same one he and Arcueid both can just snap into existence on a whim.

It's also a clever call back to the Kagetsu Tohya VN.



These should be enough to show that both the moon and Moon Cell are comparable. Now, while we don't specifically know much about the inner workings of the moon itself, the Moon Cell and its “virtual” reality gives us an idea.

Now, before we get to all that, I'm certain I won't be able to convince everyone that the Moon Cell is real and there will always be doubters. I at least hope one takes the time to read through this, though. aAn̶d̶ w̶h̶i̶l̶e̶ w̶e̶'l̶l̶ b̶e̶ g̶o̶i̶n̶g̶ o̶v̶e̶r̶ t̶h̶e̶ s̶i̶z̶e̶ o̶f̶ t̶h̶e̶ M̶o̶o̶n̶ C̶e̶l̶l̶, t̶h̶i̶s̶ w̶o̶n̶'t̶ b̶e̶ i̶n̶c̶l̶u̶d̶i̶n̶g̶ "l̶o̶l̶ h̶i̶g̶h̶e̶r̶ d̶i̶m̶e̶n̶s̶i̶o̶n̶" s̶t̶u̶f̶f̶, s̶o̶ t̶h̶a̶t̶'s̶ a̶ p̶l̶u̶s̶ s̶i̶d̶e̶.

Now for the question that's usually asked about the Moon Cell: is it real?

Well, even outside of having evidence to support its supposed to be comparable to the moon, the first Fate Extra game has a statement from Leo saying the reality inside the Moon Cell is “in some ways more real than the real world it represents”







Link

And in case one thinks this is purely hyperbolic, BB, who fused with the Moon Cell, also uses it to affect Gaia.




Link


All in all the Moon Cell being a “virtual world” doesn't mean it's some sub reality/fake reality.


Now, to go into the size of the Moon Cell:

After narrowly escaping from BB, Fate Extra protagonist Hakuno falls “millions of light years” into another part of it, and states they can no longer see the light of day.





Shortly after, we see stars and what appears to be a galaxy in the background after they're saved by their Servant.











The Moon Cell is shown to contain a moon inside itself as well.





One realm in the Moon Cell, Angelica Cage, is referred to as a universe multiple times.








Stated to have “infinite possibilities” multiple times.








And to answer the fair question if these “possibilities” are actual universes (I̶ d̶o̶n̶'t̶ t̶h̶i̶n̶k̶ e̶v̶e̶r̶y̶ "p̶o̶s̶s̶i̶b̶l̶y̶" s̶t̶a̶t̶e̶m̶e̶n̶t̶ a̶u̶t̶o̶m̶a̶t̶i̶c̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ m̶e̶a̶n̶s̶ "e̶x̶i̶s̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ t̶i̶m̶e̶l̶i̶n̶e̶”), they’re referred to as parallel universes contained within the Moon Cell.





And lastly, the space between the 7th layer and core of the Moon Cell is described as “actually infinite”, so BB had to place herself in infinite time to cross it.





There are other pieces of evidence for the size of the Moon Cell, but I think this should hopefully be enough to convince those that have never bought the arguments up to this point. And you have to remember, the Moon Cell is as big as it is because of its scanning of Gaia and simulating its structure, meaning the earth does in fact have realms of universal sizes.

Like I said before, I don't wanna drag this out too long. I'm fully aware there will always be opposition even after reading this though, to which I'll just say…




J̶o̶k̶i̶n̶g̶.̶ ̶L̶o̶l̶.̶ ̶E̶v̶e̶n̶ ̶i̶f̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶d̶i̶s̶a̶g̶r̶e̶e̶,̶ ̶I̶ ̶h̶o̶p̶e̶ ̶p̶e̶o̶p̶l̶e̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶l̶e̶a̶s̶t̶ ̶r̶e̶a̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶r̶o̶u̶g̶h̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶s̶e̶c̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶f̶u̶l̶l̶y̶.̶

To finish off here, I'd recommend going back to the “stats” section for Roa now since this covers the higher end for the moon related feats, that being multiversal - infinite multiversal and infinite speeds.


How powerful are Dead Apostle Ancestors?





So this is a topic that has recently been gaining traction in the Type Moon community, that being exactly how powerful Dead Apostle Ancestors are in the hierarchy. So instead of including this in the scaling section, we figured it should have its own section entirely to go more depth about it, since there's actually a lot of evidence pointing towards them scaling really high in the verse, and some of the evidence is overlooked.

So in short? Dead Apostle Ancestors are easily among the most powerful entities in the Type Moon multiverse. For a long time, they were thought by many to be only comparable to lower end Servants, when there's evidence as far back as the original Tsukihime that suggests otherwise, putting them way beyond most Servants, and scaling to even the god tiers of the verse. And despite this not drawing feats from the Tsukihime remake, this scaling is consistent even in the new continuity, with rank 8 Dead Apostles being comparable to True Ancestors, and that's one rank short of being a Dead Apostle Ancestor. For more info on Dead Apostle ranking in the remake continuity, read here.

Fight Script

Like some of our previous blogs, we’ve decided to include a fight script just for fun. Check it out here.

Verdict

Stats

Depending on what ends you use for Roa, this could be somewhat close. Scaling to high tiers from both characters' verses gets them into large planetary ranges. Requiem atomizing everything within a 400,000 km radius gets over 7 yottatons, and Arcueid’s moon drop gets 40 yottatons. So a decently sizable advantage in Roa’s favor here…

…although this is purely sticking with a low interpretation of Type Moon and ignoring cosmic ends and how the celestial bodies in the verse are multiverses. Scaling to the likes of the Crimson Moon and Arcueid, two people who are very explicitly high tiers in the verse, makes this very hard to ignore when Roa is on their level. When the Moon Cell itself, something that has consistent statements of containing a cosmos inside itself, is compared to the moon that Arcueid and Crimson Moon can conjure into existence and is described as something that Crimson Moon is “the master” of, then Roa getting to multiversal AP is an easy conclusion to draw from. Of course, not everyone is gonna buy the Moon Cell or multiversal Type Moon, but even without that, AP still leans Roa no matter which end you're using.

For speed, Terumi would be FTL when using the anime timeframe of his infiltration of Takamagahara. Without that, he’s low end sub-rela from scaling to Iron Tager flying to the exosphere and back extremely fast. Now, Blazblue does have higher speed arguments, buuuuut as you might've noticed we don't really buy them.

In terms of his own direct showings, Roa would be a lightning timer, but scaling to Shiki Tohno, who can move in tandem with Mech Hisui's lasers, gets significantly higher, being 13 times faster than light at minimum. And again, this is ignoring higher arguments completely, when scaling above BB, who could outpace the Moon Cell’s scanning of Gaia, gets absurdly into MFTL+ ranges, and has a more concrete infinite speed argument. And even if you assume Gaia and other celestial bodies don't house multiverses for some reason, then the feat can even be as high as sextillions of times faster than light. All in all, Roa would have the speed edge here.

Basically, even if you don't have Type Moon as some degree of cosmic, Roa would still take both the AP and speed stats handily, so he gets the point for this section.

Tertiary Factors

Experience is a bit hard to pin down. While Terumi has been around for much longer and would naturally have an edge in general experience, he mainly spends his time planning things from the shadows and only has a small handful of times where he’s engaged in direct combat. Michael has been in far more fights during his time as an executor and his many fights against Arcueid, and he has a history of using his abilities in combat, whereas Terumi mainly sticks to knives and uses Ouroboros for restraining others. And while Terumi is certainly a skilled manipulator, Roa’s intelligence in combat would ultimately prove more useful, as he could adapt to most of Terumi’s arsenal with SHIKI and avoid any potential one-shotting options. All in all, Roa takes tertiary.

Arsenal

This one is actually pretty clear cut. SHIKI has mainly been shown to primarily fight with a knife, a skill possibly inherited from Roa, and his swords and spears he can create using his blood. Allowing access to Black Keys due to Roa doesn't offer much more in versatility in weapons.

For Terumi, he not only has a knife of his own to match Roa, but has some in his shoes too for extra variety. Ouroboros gives him access to multiple chains to fight with. Hihiirokane can take on multiple forms, and honestly this alone should match what Roa can bring in arsenal. And of course there's the Susano’o unit, which Terumi can summon at any time.

Terumi takes this portion as the winner.


Abilities

Like experience, this aspect of the debate is difficult to find an answer to. Terumi has a greater number of abilities overall, but Roa’s not that far behind. And both villains have ways to counter what the other is bringing to the table.

Terumi’s various mental hax with Mind Eater and Ouroboros are rendered moot by Roa’s mental resistances. His absorption is also canceled out by Roa’s status as a Magi giving him natural resistances to that. However, Terumi can cancel out Roa’s Eyes of Death Perception thanks to surviving the Black Beast’s attacks, which also drain the life force from a target. And with Hihiirokane in his arsenal, he can easily prevent Roa from reincarnating post mortem. It could even slow his healing… if it weren’t for SHIKI’s adaption. It’s been shown on two occasions that simply cutting someone with Hihiirokane won’t instantly kill them, so unless he uses it to kill Roa right off the bat, Terumi’s going to have a harder time pulling it off when he tries again.

It doesn’t help that when we compare their respective regenerations, Terumi doesn’t even come close to approaching Roa’s Curse of Restoration. Terumi’s only showings are from healing cuts and damage to his soul, the latter of which took five years to pull off. Meanwhile, Roa’s been able to heal from getting cut in half or having most of his body completely obliterated.

Granted, there is one thing Terumi has in terms of recovery that’s better than Roa’s. Unlike Michael’s reincarnation, Terumi’s self-Observation is a quicker method of revival… though there’s the problem of its timeframe. As mentioned before, we aren’t given any details for how long this resurrection took, and Terumi will be sacrificing his stamina and strength just to keep himself alive.

Terumi could circumvent the strength drain by getting Roa to hate him, but it’s arguable if this strategy would be able to work. SHIKI could potentially feed into it, but if Roa’s in full control then Terumi’s SOL. The only other way for Terumi to get around the strength drain would be to absorb energy from a Cauldron, but Roa can just deploy a Bounded Field and counter it with his own strength boost.

In terms of what abilities they can’t counter or exploit from each other, Roa’s magecraft gives him way more options to approach the battle. He could fire lightning, amp himself with it, or prevent Terumi from ever hitting him. His mist and copies would only add to this, making it harder for Terumi to reliably land his one-shotting options.

You think that would be enough for him to pull off a win, but there’s one ability we haven’t talked about: the Mystic Eyes of Enchantment. This ability lets Roa brainwash others through eye contact, and unlike with the Eyes of Death Perception, Terumi has never shown a resistance to being brainwashed. So all Roa needs is to look at Terumi once and he’ll be under the Dead Apostle’s control.

However, there’s an elephant in the room we haven’t mentioned: Susano’o. Since it’s Terumi’s original body and he can merge with it at any time, in theory this would improve his chances of victory. Unfortunately, that’s not the case. The transformation does have its uses like reflecting projectiles, teleportation, the ability to rip out souls, and while he never uses it himself, for the sake of argument let’s say Susano’o could pull off the Time Killer too. Destroying the soul and erasing him from existence would be surefire ways of killing Roa and bypassing his regeneration/reincarnation. Sadly, they wouldn’t be possible for Susano’o to use in time.

For starters, the sequence of Susano’o destroying his opponent’s soul only happens in a win animation, meaning it’s something he’d only do at the end of a fight. This wouldn’t be an issue if he had the edge in stats, but if you’ve read the stats section you’d know that’s not the case.

As for the Time Killer, the very sequence that introduces it establishes it needs a long time to charge before it’s used. So if he wanted to kill Roa this way, Susano’o would have to wait it out until his energy is completely full, something that simply wouldn’t happen here. Ignoring the major gap in stats even at his lower ends, as mentioned above, Roa has several ways to avoid being one-shot, so using it would only lead to Roa jumping him when he least expects it.

But what about Roar of the Mad King? That’s Susano’o’s ultimate move and it completely destroys the opponent’s body! Wouldn’t that let him pull off a win?

It’s certainly possible, but Roa has come back from similar attacks before. And, again, this is ignoring the problem of Roa’s massive edge in the stat trinity ensuring Susano’o would never get the chance to use it.

Ultimately, this section is a tie.

Conclusion

Overall, no matter which ends you use for Roa, this is ultimately a win for the Serpent of Akasha. With a 5x strength advantage at minimum to an infinite degree at maximum, and a speed gap of over 5x to potentially octillions, unvigintillions, or even infinite, Roa has a hard edge in the stat trinity. While Terumi’s arsenal can bypass his durability and he resists some of Michael’s major abilities, Roa’s own counters to Terumi’s hax and far more versatile magic are just too much for the Black Susano’o to work around. Add in a more established history of combat experience and more useful abilities, and Roa will be the one to seal Terumi’s fate for good!

In hiss attempts to outscale Roa. Terumi's final tail of reincarnation ended not with a scream, but with a silent whimper.

The winner is Michael Roa Valdamjong.


Tally

Terumi- None


Roa (3)- Br3ndan5, Viviota, T0m


Team Mathematics (1)- dimentiorevived7





Full credit for some of the calcs goes to VS Battles wiki and Mikhail, who's helped a lot with Type Moon calcs.

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